Stern vs. Powell on 810 KGO

October 27, 2004
Howard Stern called into the Ronn Owens Show on 810 KGO in San Francisco on Tuesday, October 26, 2004 to confront FCC Commissioner Michael Powell, who was a guest on the program. The following is a transcript of the nearly thirteen minute long segment.

Ronn Owens: 9:38, Ronn Owens, Michael Powell... (two seconds of silence) Mark says go to the live line, live line, Ronn Owens, KGO, good morning.

Howard Stern: Ronn, hi.

Owens: Is this, is this who I think it is?

Stern: Yeah, you know, hi, and I want to say hi to, uh, the commissioner, who um, uh, a friend of mine told me the commissioner was going to be on your show.

Owens: Hang on a second, let me explain. This is Howard Stern, and it's the first time I've talked to Howard Stern. (Michael Powell audibly giggles) Go ahead.

Stern: No, um, the commissioner, uh, has fined me millions of dollars for things that I've said and consistently avoids me and avoids answering my questions and I'm wondering how long he'll stay on the phone with me.

Owens: Well, go ahead and ask a question.

Stern: Well, okay. Hi Michael, how are you?

Michael Powell: Hi Howard, how are you?

Stern: Okay. Does it make you nervous to talk to me?

Powell: It does not.

Stern: Alright.

Owens: Made me nervous to talk to him.

Stern: Well I've got about a ten zillion questions for you because uh, you, uh, you honestly are an enigma to me. Uh, the first question being, how did you get your job? It is apparent to most of us in broadcasting that your father got you your job. And you kind of sit there and you're the judge, you're the arbiter, you're the one who tells us what we can and can't say on the air. And yet, I really don't even think you're qualified to be the head of the commission. Do you deny that your father got you this job?

Powell: Well I would deny it, uh, exceedingly. You, you can look at my résumé if you want, Howard, I'm, I'm not, I'm not ashamed of it and I think it justifies my existence. I was chief of staff of the anti-trust division, um, I'm, I'm an attorney, I was a clerk on the court of the United States, I was a private attorney, I have the same credentials that virtually anyone who, uh, sits in my position does and I think it's a little unfair that just because I happened to have a famous father and other public officials don't that you make an assumption that that's the only basis on which I serve my position. I don't think that's fair.

Owens: Caller asked that question already, give him another tough one.

Stern: Well so out of all the people that sit on the commission you were moved to the head of the class. I, I don't buy your explanation, but okay, um, you know, the thing that amazes me about you is you continually fine me but you're afraid to go to court with me, and I'll explain myself if you give me a second. Um, fine after fine came, and we tried to go to court with you to find out about obscenity, and what your line was, and whether our show was indecent, which I don't think it is, and you, um, do something really sneaky behind the scenes. You, you continue to, uh, block Viacom from buying new stations until we pay those fines. You are afraid to go to court, you're afraid to get a ruling time and time again. When will you allow this to go to court and stop practicing your form of racketeering that you do by making stations pay up or you hold up their license renewal?

Powell: First of all, I, that's flatly false, um...

Stern: It's not false.

Powell: I'm afraid it is. There is no reason why Viacom, or any other company who feels, uh, that they have, uh, been wrongly fined, can't sue us in court. We have no basis whatsoever to prevent them from going to court.

Stern: I've lived through your fines, Michael, and Mel Karmazin came to me one day and said listen Howard, we're going to have to pay up some sort of cockamamie bunch of fines that we don't believe are wrong because we can't get our paperwork done. We're finding it increasingly difficult to buy radio stations. I, I, you know I know you're not telling the truth, and I question why you are selected to be the one who is the FCC Commissioner.

Owens: Let, let me throw, Howard, let me throw something in.

Stern: I'm going, I'm going to Sirius satellite radio and I...

Owens: That's what I was just going to ask. Now hang on, hang on Howard, that's the question I was going to ask, so now he's going to go to satellite, one of the things that I read is that there are people who are saying that cable TV, satellite radio, that that ought to fall under the aegis of the FCC, that content there...

Stern: Nobody's saying that.

Owens: And I mean if that happens, if I'm paying money to see something...

Stern: It's not going to happen. Michael knows that. This is, this is this guise of the public airwaves. Michael's a Republican. He knows that the marketplace...

Owens: Wait a minute, didn't you get appointed, weren't you appointed by Clinton?

Powell: Yes, and by the way I think...

Stern: No no no no no, he was appointed to the head of the FCC by George W. Bush.

Powell: Right, and you know, Howard, the only thing I would ask if we're going to be fair is that, um, the, the commitment to the indecency provisions is not Republican or Democrat. I have Democratic colleagues on my commission that argue for license revocations. (Stern is trying to talk but his volume is very low at this point) Well if you want me to answer, let me answer. Um, the Congress just, uh, debated indecency fines in the United States Congress, it passed the Senate 99-to-1. They're not 99 Republicans and one Democrat; it was bipartisan. I mean I think you you have a right to be concerned about the way the indecency fines are done, but rather than attack me personally, you, you can challenge the regime. But the entire commission has voted on those fines. The commission has a statute that it's required to enforce. (Stern is again trying to talk but his volume is still very low) And I think it's a cheap shot to say, uh, just because my father's famous, I don't belong in my position, even though I've served longer than any commission in decades at the commission. If you don't believe the commission should have any right to draw limits, I think that's a respectable position, but it doesn't happen to be the law.

Stern: Well Michael, it's not a cheap shot to say to you that your father got you your position, and I'll tell you why. Guys like me who came from nowhere, out of nothing, who worked their way up and and, and, and committed themselves to broadcasting in a career in broadcasting have to answer to you, and it is in question as to how you got to where you got to. And let's face it, you got to the head of the FCC, you got to the front of the class the way George W. Bush got out of the draft. And it's completely fair for me to question because you're the guy sitting there telling me I'm guilty of saying something and Oprah Winfrey isn't. And I wish you'd address that.

Owens: We, we talked about Oprah, Howard. I brought it up.

Powell: There's one point I would make, you know, one point I would make Howard if I could...

Stern: Well make the statement that you made originally, which was, Oprah is uh, is a I guess a beloved figure, and Howard Stern is not.

Powell: No, I don't know when I made that, I think maybe Ronn might have made that statement, I have never made such a statement, my argument was we are going to enforce the things fairly regardless of the notoriety of the personality involved. I mean the only thing that I would say, and I respect your opinion, it's just that you personalize it as if you're answering to me. You're answering to the commission if you're answering to anybody. All of these fines are voted by five members, Republicans and Democrats alike. They have been unanimous. The only dissents in these cases have been from the Democrats who argued for even stricter fines and enforcement, so I, I don't mind having an honest debate about the role of the commission in indecency; I think as a public institution we're responsible to do that. But I don't think, I don't think I have been personally the one that you're answering to, um, and I think that...

Stern: Of course you are, of course you are. Listen, Michael, if I was a friend of George W. Bush, you know he'd give you the word and you'd back off from me. I mean, we, we can't, we can't...

Owens: Now give him a chance if that's the case.

Powell: I think that's just ridiculous. I mean...

Stern: How do you explain Oprah Winfrey then.

Powell: That case, that case is still at the commission, that case is still at the commission. I mean, if we don't, then, then you can ask that question. But until we resolve it, I don't think you can ask that question. And to be perfectly honest, uh, I've been chairman for almost four years, and I think we've had fines against your station twice. Um, and I don't think that we, you know, made any particular crusade of the Howard Stern show or you.

Stern: Yeah okay Michael, that's why I've received the largest fines in history and I've said the exact, identical thing that Oprah Winfrey said and you said she's beloved and I'm not.

Powell: We have not, uh, you can hold yourself to at least the same standard you insist upon on us. You know, I've never said what you have suggested...

Owens: We'll let these two guys fight it out on their own time. Howard, I've got some bills to pay, I'm thrilled you called.

Stern: Ronn, wait a second. Let me say one last thing.

Owens: Yeah.

Stern: Uh, I invite Michael onto my show, which he won't come on, number two I've been respectful, I hope there's no, uh, sort of, uh uh, retribution as a result of my phone call, which I believe Michael is capable of. Uh, I've been the victim of it, you can call me crazy, you can call me nuts, um Michael knows what I'm talking about. I've been slammed, I've been not allowed to go to court over this thing and prove my innocence in this. I don't think a court would've found me indecent at all. I'm not here to set up the, the commissioner, I called him because a friend of mine told me two hours ago that Michael Powell was going to be there. And there's about ten zillion questions that I'd like to ask, and maybe you'll ask this after I get off the phone. Janet Jackson, do you really think...

Owens: We talked about it, next question.

Stern: What do you mean next question?

Owens: Because I asked him about Janet Jackson, pointing out the absurdity, the absurdity that if you're going to get upset over anything it's the ripping off of the bra, what's the big deal with the nipple?

Stern: But but but not only that, what, why would you blame Viacom for Janet Jackson going up there, ripping off her shirt during a live event, and then not fine people for using the S-word and the F-word, uh, during live events? What's the difference? You really think Les Moonves sat in a room and conspired with Janet...

Powell: Can I answer part of that?

Owens: Yeah answer it and Howard honestly, I've gotta go.

Stern: Why do you got to go, Ronn?

Owens: Because they're paying for this thing and I've already cut out one commercial cluster, I've already paid one commercial cluster. (Editor's Note: This statement came at the 9:14 mark of the segment)

Stern: Nothing could be more important than this, Ronn.

Owens: Alright going ahead and ask it, let him answer the question then.

Powell: Well just two quick things. I mean, I don't think we've been inconsistent. He says we didn't do, uh, we do Janet Jackson but we let people say the F-word. I mean, one of the most controversial findings this year is for Bono's use of the F-word on the station. I think we have, uh, been consistent across that line, but the other thing is, uh, what the order found in Viacom. Viacom is a big media conglomerate, and it includes MTV that developed and produced the programming. And it was our conclusion after investigating that, uh, it was not just a sort of passive...

Owens: You know what gets me on that one, though? You take Channel 5 down the street. And we're ABC; they're CBS. Now they wind up getting, well I think it was 27-5.

Powell: Not in the Janet Jackson... You see, that's a perfect example, in the Janet Jackson case we did not fine the affiliates. We only fined the stations that are owned and operated by Viacom.

Owens: Yeah, but I think they are. I think Channel 5 is a CBS O-and-O if I'm not mistaken.

Powell: Yes.

Owens: Now they have nothing to do with that.

Powell: No, it's not about the O-and-O, it's about the parent company.

Owens: So that's the only way to get at the parent company?

Powell: That basically is how we calculate the fines by the parent company, but the parent company is responsible.

Stern: Michael, hey Michael I know I'm going to get cut off, so listen, absolutely I don't take this personally, I don't think you personally hate me, uh I think that what you're doing is dangerous to free speech, uh I don't think just against me, I think things have gotten way out of control. I am not personally vindictive, I am happy to be going to satellite radio and Sirius, um, uh, I welcome the move. I think it's a sad day, though, when people are, you know, when the marketplace no longer determines what is indecent. I think there's tremendous hypocrisy that you allow late at night on the radio with teenagers calling in on Lovelines talking about blatant sexual acts. There's a complete double standard here when it comes to me in morning radio when it's probably the only time of day that parents listen with their children, 6 to 10 in the morning. I think there's a lot of inconsistencies, and I'm going to ask you while you're still in office, and who knows, Bush will probably win so you'll be there for awhile...

Owens: Alright, on that note Howard, do let me go.

Stern: You know what Ronn, take a good look at this with the commissioner, ask him about the billion dollars in computer equipment, and and he knows what they're talking about, and good luck to Michael Powell and good luck to all of you.

Owens: Alright.

Powell: Thank you Howard, good to talk with you.

Owens: Appreciate the call. What do you say?

Powell: Well you know, it's interesting, I think Howard has an argument, but his argument is that there should be no limits on what he's able to do on the radio. If there are going to be limits, someone is going to have to be able to define them, and someone is going to have to enforce them.

Owens: Truth is, he's the poster child, but you go to any major market and there's going to be some morning zoo that's even worse.

Powell: Oh, absolutely. And I think think that while Howard sort of, because of the notoriety that he engenders, is one of the preeminent shock jocks in the business, and the fines he's had in the past, sort of becomes the face of this, but some of the most significant fines and some of the most egregious stuff has not been on Howard's show or been against him.

Owens: But what does get to me is what I mentioned about Channel 5 and why they should be fined when they didn't even know, they're, they're just running the thing and they get fined. That seems unfair.

Powell: Well, I, I, I think that it, it would be unfair, except for they're not just a station, they're owned by the company that did have the choices. I mean, part of what, uh, a responsible authority does is it, it balance and it mitigates its remedies unique to the facts of the circumstances. The difference here in the CBS case is CBS is owned by Viacom, who owns many of the components that developed, produced and ran the, the halftime show. And that's what we held we held them responsible for...

Owens: Just promise me one thing, we're not going to have Up With People during the Super Bowl, please.

END OF SEGMENT (Total Time - 12:50)

For the audio from the interview, visit KGO's official website (which has the interview available online as of this writing).

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